16 replies to this topic

[Evan Flynn]

So I have a pretty basic knowledge of BattleTech lore, but there's one thing that has me confused. Obviously, the Lance Leader is the guy in charge of a standard four 'mech lance, but I've noticed that they tend to use either heavy or assault 'mechs. Is it possible for the Lance Leader to use a medium or light? Is it frowned upon to use a lighter chassis, or is it because lighter chassis tend to be in the line of fire more frequently and/or are at a risk of being destroyed? On that note, does this phenomenon hold true for a Clan Star as well?

Thanks ahead of time for the answers.

[Vassago Rain]

Mech selection has nothing to do with classes, and is typically based around speed and armament.

So, for instance, someone might field a thunderbolt, two centurions, and an albatross. Or it could be two shadowhawks, a wasp, and a phoenix hawk.

A light lance isn't a lance made up of light mechs, but a lance with only 3 mechs.

A command lance is a light or normal lance with a commander of some kind attached. Think of it as his bodyguard, or the field HQ.

An augmented lance has aerotech and/or ground bound vehicles attached to it.

A secondary augmented lance is like any other augmented lance, but instead of vehicles, it has battlearmor or infantry attached.

An airlance is a standard lance, usually with a commander attached, and attached aerotech and/or conventional aircraft.

I think that's it.

[627]

That's not true, lance leader has the same class like the rest in most lore. If that is a scout lance, lance leader is light, only assault and command lance are heavier but this still depends on the unit.

If you take company or battalion leader, these are on the heavier side, though.

[Evan Flynn]

Vassago Rain, on 23 July 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Mech selection has nothing to do with classes, and is typically based around speed and armament.

So, for instance, someone might field a thunderbolt, two centurions, and an albatross. Or it could be two shadowhawks, a wasp, and a phoenix hawk.

A light lance isn't a lance made up of light mechs, but a lance with only 3 mechs.

A command lance is a light or normal lance with a commander of some kind attached. Think of it as his bodyguard, or the field HQ.

An augmented lance has aerotech and/or ground bound vehicles attached to it.

A secondary augmented lance is like any other augmented lance, but instead of vehicles, it has battlearmor or infantry attached.

An airlance is a standard lance, usually with a commander attached, and attached aerotech and/or conventional aircraft.

I think that's it.

I see, so there are different kinds of Lances. Let's say there's a Lance with an Atlas, a Thunderbolt, a Trebuchet, and a Commando... From what I've gathered, it's entirely possible for the leader of that Lance to be piloting either the Commando or the Trebuchet?

Edited by Evan Sakowicz, 23 July 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Evan Sakowicz, on 23 July 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

I see, so there are different kinds of Lances. Let's say there's a Lance with an Atlas, a Thunderbolt, a Trebuchet, and a Commando... Is it at all possible for the leader of that Lance to be piloting either the Commando or the Trebuchet?

Mechwarriors don't have universal training in every mech out there, so a high ranked officer who is proficient in a commando would be using a commando, if one's available. But unless circumstances were such that he couldn't scramble enough lighter/faster machines, the odds of seeing a commando leading atlases are pretty low.

Battletech is pretty fluid sometimes.

Another note is that sometimes, lances are categorized by the majority mech class. My second example lance would be a medium lance, but so would the first. Then they'd probably stick their job title in there somewhere, so the medium lance wouldn't just be a medium lance, but a striker/recon medium lance.

Basically, anything goes.

[Davers]

627, on 23 July 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

That's not true, lance leader has the same class like the rest in most lore. If that is a scout lance, lance leader is light, only assault and command lance are heavier but this still depends on the unit.

If you take company or battalion leader, these are on the heavier side, though.

Well, often recon lances are led by medium mechs as well.

But I am sure there are lots of exceptions. A Charger might lead a scout lance after all.

[GreyGriffin]

In the latter part of the Succession Wars (circa 2800s to around the 3030's) there's also the added complication of 'mechs being private property. Many Battlemechs weren't actually owned by the state, but were heirlooms passed down through hereditary lines to Mechwarriors who formed a sort of feudal knighthood. Your Striker Lance leader or commander might be in a Panther, because that's the 'Mech his father's father's father piloted, and that's just the one he has.

[Vassago Rain]

GreyGriffin, on 23 July 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

In the latter part of the Succession Wars (circa 2800s to around the 3030's) there's also the added complication of 'mechs being private property. Many Battlemechs weren't actually owned by the state, but were heirlooms passed down through hereditary lines to Mechwarriors who formed a sort of feudal knighthood. Your Striker Lance leader or commander might be in a Panther, because that's the 'Mech his father's father's father piloted, and that's just the one he has.

If you look up the term 'logistical nightmare,' there's a picture of a battlemech company.

[Lykaon]

Evan Sakowicz, on 23 July 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

I see, so there are different kinds of Lances. Let's say there's a Lance with an Atlas, a Thunderbolt, a Trebuchet, and a Commando... From what I've gathered, it's entirely possible for the leader of that Lance to be piloting either the Commando or the Trebuchet?

It's possible but not likely and it has nothing to do with tonnage and more to do with additional equipment.

In your specific example it highly likley for the commander to be in the Atlas.One of the well documented features of an Atlas is it has an advanced communications suite with a satalite uplink.

Mechs that are frequently taken by lance or company commanders are as follows.

Light mechs.

Javelin: this 30 ton mech uses an advanced communications suite the Garret T10B well known for reliability and superior function.

Jenner: frequently used by recon and strike lance commanders in the service of House Kurita.This is more a case of availability than suitability.

Valkyrie: Frequently used as a command platform in the Federated Suns in light and medium lances.A Valkyrie was piloted by Dan Allard a highly ranked member of the Kellhounds mercenary unit.

Mongoose: A popular light command mech during the height of the old Star League.

Medium mechs:

Crab: frequently the old Starleague would deploy entire companies of crab mechs obviously this would also means frequently Crabs were command mechs.

Phoenixhawk: A common command mech for recon lances and companies.The Poenixhawk was equiped with exception communication and tracking equipment.

Wolverine: Another medium mech equiped with sophisticated comm and tracking equipment.Favored by FLW military as a command mech when larger more robust chassis were not available.

Shadowhawk: A commonly used and well regarded medium mech used by many well known personalities including Grayson Carlyle founder and commander of the Grey Death Legion.

Heavy Mechs:

Orion: A common command chassis for the SLDF and succession war era militaries. General Alexander Kerinsky piloted an Orion.

Marauder: A heavy mech equiped with excellent comm gear and combat computers a common choice for lance commanders.Major Devon Cruz of the Hard Luck Hussars commanded her strike lance from the seat of a Marauder.

Flashman: A very popular design used in the Starleague's reunification war.Entire 'fast strike" companies were deployed made up entirely with Flashman battlemechs.Obviously some were command mechs.

Archer: A robust and well designed battlemech favored by several well regarded commanders including Jamie Wolf of Wolf's Dragoons and Morgan Kell commander of the Kell Hounds.

Warhammer: A well regarded and versitile battlemech that was the chosen command mech of several notable personalities including Natasha Kerinsky commander of the Black Widow company of the Wolf's Dragoons and Yurinata Kurita one of the most deadly mechwarriors ever to have lived and commander of the Combine's elite Genyosha.

Assault mechs

Battlemaster: A frequent choice for high level command.Frequently assigned to company or batallion level command.Hanse Davion piloted a battlemaster.

Atlas: As is stated earlyer the Atlas is equiped with an advanced satilite uplink and comm suite making it a common choice for a command mech.

Cyclops: a purpose built command mech that was commonly used as a company command mech or even on a battalion level.A Cyclops was the chosen mech of Major Wolfgang Hansen (son of the founder of the merc unit Hansen's rough riders Gerhardt Hansen) Scott Bradley commander of the Kellhounds second also piloted a Cyclops.

Edited by Lykaon, 23 July 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Evan Sakowicz, on 23 July 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

So I have a pretty basic knowledge of BattleTech lore, but there's one thing that has me confused. Obviously, the Lance Leader is the guy in charge of a standard four 'mech lance, but I've noticed that they tend to use either heavy or assault 'mechs. Is it possible for the Lance Leader to use a medium or light? Is it frowned upon to use a lighter chassis, or is it because lighter chassis tend to be in the line of fire more frequently and/or are at a risk of being destroyed? On that note, does this phenomenon hold true for a Clan Star as well?

Thanks ahead of time for the answers.

It's very possible for a lance leader to utilize a mech that's lower weightclass than a heavy/assault.

Grayson Death Carlyle, best known as the leader of the Grey Death Legion, was well known for commanding from the cockpit of an aging Shadow Hawk battlemech for quite some time.

Really it depends on the unit's strength, and the lance compisition.

In the original conception of Battletech in 84/85, the lance structure was set up so that a normal lance consisted of atleast 1 of each weight class. This idea has changed over the years to focus more on "Lance Types" IE a scouting lance may be 2-3 lights backed up by a fast medium or heavy mech. A Harasser lance may be made up of primarily mediums with a heavy as the commander. ect.

This isn't 100% followed, but the basic idea is, that the lance commander would have the better gear of the lance, and have a heavier battlemech to signify his station. This was more common in 3025 era... but has become less so as more and better technology has become available. Really anymore, it's commander's preference.

[Magna Canus]

Being a lance leader is about the ability and will to lead. If you have that then you are good to go.
I think the reason why most lance leaders end up being heavy/assault is because of speed. When your mech is lumbering across the field at 40-60 kph you have a lot of time on your hands to issues commands. Lights and mediums on the other hand are in the middle of the fight from the beginning due to their ability to close range quickly. ECM mechs are an exception here because they spend more time spotting and scouting which requires you to hide and keep the enemy in your sights. That leaves you more time to issue commands and maybe an even better position to do so because you have a good portion of your objective in your sights.

[Mechteric]

Evan Sakowicz, on 23 July 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

I see, so there are different kinds of Lances. Let's say there's a Lance with an Atlas, a Thunderbolt, a Trebuchet, and a Commando... From what I've gathered, it's entirely possible for the leader of that Lance to be piloting either the Commando or the Trebuchet?

I don't think lances would actually compose themselves of one of each mech type (unless they were the only 4 mechs that happened to be guarding a facility). I think you'd more likely have a scout lance with all lights/mediums, assault lances with mediums/heavies/assaults, and other lance roles that are more closely related.

[GreyGriffin]

The average Inner Sphere "Lance of the Line" was 1 light, 2 mediums, and 1 heavy, if I recall correctly.

Assault 'Mechs were huge strategic assets, expensive to construct, purchase, maintain, rearm, and repair, and often huge targets, meaning that during the dry periods of the Succession Wars (and even after), Assault 'Mechs were a rare sight, reserved for the defense of critical installations when they weren't spearheading tough offensives.

[Vassago Rain]

GreyGriffin, on 24 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

The average Inner Sphere "Lance of the Line" was 1 light, 2 mediums, and 1 heavy, if I recall correctly.

Assault 'Mechs were huge strategic assets, expensive to construct, purchase, maintain, rearm, and repair, and often huge targets, meaning that during the dry periods of the Succession Wars (and even after), Assault 'Mechs were a rare sight, reserved for the defense of critical installations when they weren't spearheading tough offensives.

There's no such thing as an 'average lance,' and assaults aren't anywhere near as rare as you think. By 3050, the inner sphere had about as many locusts as it did surplus banshees and chargers.

[GreyGriffin]

If we want to get all pedantic, on the Random Weight Class tables in Total Warfare, an Assault 'Mech only shows up in a Heavy or Assaut Lance. On the Random Company Table, assuming you rolled 6 companies, 1 of each type, you get 9 heavy lances versus 8 Light/Medium, with only 1 assault Lance.

In a Heavy lance, you have a 50% chance of getting 1 Assault 'mech. So let's say you get 5 Assaults. In an Assault Lance, you average 2 and 2/3 of an assault 'mech, so we'll also round that up to 3.

So in 6 companies (72 Battlemechs), you are looking at 8 Assault 'mechs, a population of barely over 11%, and that's rounding up.

These tables are designed for the early 3070s, so late/post Civil War into Early Jihad, when the major industries of the Great Houses were up and running again at full steam, with the full weight of recovered and newly researched technologies behind them.

And that's just the game mechanics. We're not even getting into the fiction.

[Lootee]

In the fluff the lance or company commander usually drove the mech with the best targeting and communications systems.

Mechs like the Phoenix Hawk, Wolverine, Cyclops, Marauder, Mongoose, Shootist were described as top commander choices.

The Marauder is only 75 tons but when it was driven by a high ranking officer it had 95 ton Nightstars to bodyguard it. So if you go by the fluff tonnage and combat ability really has nothing to do with it. It was whatever had the best available communications and coordination systems.

The commander's job was to coordinate strategy and deploy forces where necessary, getting into combat and killing stuff was not his main duty.

With the Clans it's different. Every MW is expected to be able to duel and defeat challengers in honorable 1v1 combat.

Edited by Lootee, 24 July 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[jaxjace]

nope, **** logistical standards, any and every arms race advantage would be taken no matter the unreliability of maintenance, which is why you often saw looted clan mechs in the hands of officers or high ranking mechwarriors. If there is an advantage battletech will take it and to hell with upkeep costs dammit.